Event ID: 1429953
Event Started: 9/25/2009 7:00:25 PM
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Please stand by for realtime captions.
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>> Okay. We are three minutes in, so whatever you want to do. 
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>> It's for the committee that is in charge of it. Okay. 
>> So we have somebody else that is going to caption, but we are going to have to -- Sharon is sending you something Rob that maybe you can put up, you can post, because obviously, it doesn't do me any good to say it if we are not getting any captioning. It's a link of where they can go to get the captioning. It's ww www.captionedtext,andthereisacer taincodethatyouuse,anyway,I  www.captionedtext,andthereisacertaincodethatyouuse,anyway,I --ww w.captionedtext. And there is a certain code that you enter. 
>> What is your e-mail? 
>> Robertb@bcm.edu. 
>> I guess we will go ahead and start since we are so late, we are probably losing people as it is. Randi, are you there? 
>> I'm here. 
>> I'm going to -- I will tell you what, just listen for the end of the intro, and I will tell you when it's ready. 
>> Are you going to give me the count down? 
>> Yeah, stand by. 
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>> Good afternoon, everyone, welcome to our webcast today. Communication Access with Randi Turner. We are as you have undoubtedly noticed that we are late today because we have had technical difficulties with our Captioner. You can go to a website and view the captioning. We will have the captioning done, but it is not simultaneous captioning like we generally have except on this other website. Any way, that is sort of where we are on that right now. I apologize for the late start, as we have tried to get this worked out. I'm your moderator, and I am with the ADA center here at ILRU. I will be assisting with today's presentation. We encourage you who training in real-time today, we encourage you to click on the e-mail button on your screen or you can e-mail it directly at swilu.org. If you have technical difficulties please contact us. 
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>> In general, businesses must assure effective communications for persons with disabilities. That is for people who are blind, visually impaired, deaf/blind, or hard of hearing. Today we are going to focus on deaf and hard of hearing. We are going to go through and talk about the responsibilities of the different entities with regards to showing access to those who are deaf and hard of hearing. The ADA prohibits employers, employment agencies, labor unions, and joint labor management from not providing access and accommodations. This is to provide access of the job and benefits of the employment. 
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>> We will talk a little bit later about what those options are. One of the things that I get a lot from the businesses are what are the options. I will show you the different types of accesses and availability that is out there. Next slide, that shows that 15 or -- employers have more than 15 or more employees. The Department of Justice actually states and you will see it is language from the regulations, but the public entity shall take the appropriate steps to ensure that the applicants, the participants, and the members of the public with the disabilities are as effective as communications with others. This is showing that the communications are available through the auxiliary services. It shall accommodate with the services where necessary to afford the opportunity of individuals to participate in and access the benefits. In determining what type of auxilliary, you will see where the bar has been raised to ensure the access at a higher degree than you would find in the public accommodations section title 3. It says here, in determining the ux ill rare Right. And you know -- auxiliary. Courtrooms tend to have a lot of noise that bounces off of those walls. Many of the buildings are very old and the acoustics are not equipped for those who are hard of hearing. The deaf individual may use CART, but they may also prefer an interpreter to access the communication. That's where Congress made the state and the local government a little higher in regards to accountability to ensure that those with disabilities get the services they need in the state and local programs. The consideration -- continuing on with that slide, but the consideration -- I'm sorry. The consideration and compliance for such alterations must be made by the entity for their designated need. When the decision to not make an accommodation or services made by the public entity, that has to come from the head of the entity or the designee to access the service, program, or activity. Here is another area that raises that bar again for the state and the local government. And this part of the regulation states that the decision must be accompanied by a written statement for the reasons of reaching that conclusion. You can see there is a higher bar there for the accountability with the state and the local government agencies to ensure access the provided for those who are deaf and hard of hearing. Some of the other areas of the local government that you may run in to is policemen who are writing someone who is deaf or hard of hearing and writing a speeding ticket. That is a minimal communication. That is easily relayed through notes. At the same time, if the police officer is going to do an investigation, maybe there is a domestic violence call at a home, then it is the obligation of the police department or the sheriff's department to ensure that the communication access is happening. When they get there, and the individuals are deaf, they are going to need a qualified interpreter. We will talk later about what qualified means. 

>>> Next slide. Public accommodations. What are the responsibilities of the public accommodations? Those are the entities that are opened to the public. This is any kind of food or drink establishment, retail establishment, lodging, recreation, education, places of exhibition, public gatherings, stations used for public transportation, service establishments, services of display such as a museum, social service centers, places of exercise or recreation. This covers all of your non-profit agencies, for-profit agencies and your private businesses that are out there. Some of the areas that we often see people who are deaf and hard of hearing struggling in is the access and communications with doctors, lawyers, day care centers, educational facilities, and by that, I mean someone who is taking a class. I have an individual that is taking the LSAT. She is taking the applications for law school. Even though she has very high English skills, she wants to catch that verbatim. That's the accommodation that works best for her so she doesn't miss anything. Even though she is not a fluent signer, she gets more equal access by using CART for that situation. The public accommodations will be those types of places. One of the biggest challenges of working with people who are deaf, specifically, are the doctors, lawyers, those types of facilities that are less frequently used than others. 
>> The public accommodation must ensure that they are provided. They must choose among a variety of alternatives to achieve effective communication and the bottom line is that the effective communication is achieved. An individual, if you will go to the next slide, here is a list of several different options. Sign language interpreters is one option, qualified interpreters, and that is an interpreter that can communicate effective, actively, and partially, dispursely. You do not see the term certificated. There is nothing in the Americans of Disabilities Act that requires them to certified. I'm in the State of Texas, and in Texas, we have state laws that are stronger than the requirements that are under the ADA and in corporate, they must hold state court interpreter certification, or the national registery of the deaf, and that is including more than interpretations in front of the judge, they are many others. We have a statute in Texas where if the interpreter does not hold that court or the legal certificate to interpret, the Miranda, when it is given, the warning, it's in our statute, then that is not admissible by law enforcement. That is huge. We add that second layer to ensure not just that they meet the qualifications of the ADA, but also to ensure they have the experience and the training to do legal settings. You might find in various states that the term qualified interpreter could have other meanings other than what you find in the ADA. The other options is note taking services, or computer assisted note taking, which is CART, computer access real time translation. The other is [ inaudible ], and it's not verbatim like CART is, but it is a high level of note taking. It's from the national institute for the deaf, and they have created a program that is done by a laptop. CART is done with a court reporter who has had extra training on top of court reporter skills where they are able to translate in real time. Where the court reporter can go back and fix a transcript after the hearing is done, and the CART is done the first time around. There is a difference in that access. In the CART you have a dictionary in the laptop where the stenography is tying in to the laptop and the language can come through the computer. Every court reporter has a dictionary, it is based on a key, it is keyed on the way they develop those sounds. 

>>> Another type of transcription services which is close to CART, it's not actually CART, but it has more information than just the print. Sometimes those options are used in colleges. We see C-print in colleges and universities, I am also seeing them used in K-12. There is a qualified set of interpreters, so for those who are hard of hearing, they may benefit in the use of using C-Print in the classroom. 
>> Print materials, braille, or large print, for those who are deaf/blind. Not all who are deaf/blind are Helen Keller. So there a lot of other technologies out there that work such as braille and large print for those who are considered deaf/blind. 
>> Telephone amplifier. Those who are compatible with a hearing aid. Not all of the phones are compatible with the hearing aids, and they will provide feedback. You feel like you are going to go deaf if the noise doesn't trail off. 

>>> TTDs, these are almost becoming extinct down in the next slide, I am going to talk about Video Relay, that is the mode of communication that many people are using today. It's their telephone. It's a texting device, a Sidekick, a Blackberry, that's their telephone. The TTYs, those are becoming out dated. There are a lot of areas that don't have high speed internet access, so they can't get the video phones in those areas, but those are becoming less popular. 
>> The assisted listening devices that amplify the sound, and I will show you that in a few more slides. 

>>> We have Video Relay, and that is one of the coolest things that have ever happened to people who are deaf. For the most part the person is deaf. Many of you may be familiar with relay texts or some type of relay service whatever state you are in, this is the same idea, but instead of having a relay operator that is typing back and forth, you have a sign language interpreter that is the relay agent. The individual is deaf and they call in to the relay service, and there is a number of them that they can choose from, and they access an interpreter through the high speed internet, the video telephone that is attached to their television. There is a lot of new technologies out there as far as video phones. Go out there and look for video telephones, and you will see a number of different kinds. I have a few of them to show you in slides later. This is interpreted much more accurately. The average student that leaves high school that is profoundly deaf and is a sign language user, the mean is at the level of 4th grade. This is from Gallaudet university. That means 50% reads at 6th grade and 50% read below. It's not going to be as effective for that population as it would be for the sign language interpreter. The video relay service gives that access today. That's exciting. It's really opening the door for the community. The other way to access communication is the instant messaging. For example, the staff that I work with in my office we use IM, and we can communicate with each other, and we don't have to go over and -- actually, you know, we are all lazy these days and it's easier to do an IM message and we don't have to pick up the phone. This is great for individuals who don't know sign languages, but you have the instant message that you can use back and forth. The visual alarms, hotels for example, they often have a hotel kit where there is several pieces of equipment where the room is accessible. They have amplified phone. TTY, visual alarms, some type of door knockers, and you will know someone is there, the light will flash in the bedroom, and an alerting device will be used in the hotel. They can also be used in hospitals, and I encourage the hospitals to use them because it's there in all one package. There is some businesses that uses texting devices, blackberries, other PDAss, Sidekicks, for example, making sure that their staff knows when there is an emergency, a fire drill, something like that, so there are devices out there like that. This left the door open for technology. And that is pretty exciting. We didn't have video relay in 1990 when the ADA passed. We didn't have texting devices. We were not texting in 1990. So the opportunity to add devices and other types of equipment was there for individuals to do so. The next slide, here is a couple more, opening and closed captioning, video relay, -- oops, I think I duplicated a slide, sorry about that. Opening and closed captioning is another way to access communication. Opening captioning when you are going to view the film and it's there for everyone to see. The closed captioning is on the television programs where you have a certain place on your TV is and you click the CC button and then you have the closed captioning on your television. So places like hotels and hospitals have to ensure that the captioning is on their TV, because if someone who is disabled would have the same right to that access. My friend up in Washington State, John Evans, his mantra is:  If you go, I go. If you get to go to the Christmas party, and communicate with everybody, then I get to go. I get to communicate with everybody also. You get to go, I get to go. So if you keep that in mind, is the access necessary? Is it needed? Then that is the general way to understand what the ADA is all about. The next is the deaf/blind. This is to provide people who are dear/blind with all of the information that is available. If they are attending a conference, they would have the SSP with them, but they also need the sign language interpreter available so they can hear something, or be alarmed. That's what the SSP does. It gives the person who has the vision and the hearing lost, they will have the full environment of what is going on. Sometimes things as simple as contrasts and documents, they are all in bold letters for those who have a vision lost, the [ inaudible ], that's a typing device that also has braille as far as being able to type braille and receive something typed and turning it in to braille. Qualified readers or audio services, and of course guide animals, and you might laugh and say, guide animals, communication access, that's exactly what they do for those who have hearing losses. They can tell when something is burning on the stone, telephone ringing, all of that, that's the access to communication. 
>> Next slide. Who pays for the Auxilliary services? They must provide appropriate services, if not, it will provide an undue burden on the nature and service. This cannot be passed on to the person who is disabled. There are federal tax credits and deductions that are available to offset the auxiliary services. If you go in and type in the ADA tax credits and deductions you can get that information. That is the U.S. Department of Justice' website. The cost and the accommodation is the biggest issue and those are the people who are deaf and need sign language interpreters. The challenge that I hear most about is the -- is the doctor's offices. And the cost of the accommodation for an interpreter, for example, in a doctor's office might exceed the amount of money that is received for that service. For example, if the cost of the interpreter is going to be $40 an hour, and there is a two hour minimum, and that's standard, and then you have -- you have $80 worth of services for services. If you look at the regulations that are noted in this section on this slide, you will see that the Department of Justice outlines five different considerations to be looked at before making the determination of undue burden. So, for example, it is not only the cost of the service that has been taken in to consideration, but it is also the overall financial resources of that business. How much money does the doctor make all year long? How much money is going in? How much is going out? That type of thing. Is there any other parent type of organization or entity. If it is a large clinic and there is several locations in the city -- I will just make up one, Houston Regional Clinic, for example, I don't believe there is such a place, but let's say there is 10 of those locations throughout the community? Are they all meshed together or are they independent of each other. So, for example, halfway houses, many of those are run by large corporations that run other halfway houses. They may need access to telephone services, is it a burden to provide accommodations. Is that an undue burden? Probably not with all of the entities that run that agency. It's the big picture. It's not that you make money off of the individual. Often people will be asked, can't you bring in your own interpreter? Is there a family member that can interpret for you. If you go back to the definition of the qualified interpreter, the family and the friends are not going to be the best resources. Because they can communicate one-on-one doesn't mean they have the skills to interpret the information especially when you get in to the medical and legal settings where the information is complex. Unfortunately, I have heard horror stories about using a family member interpreting to the deaf individual, and someone died, and they didn't realize that they were going to die and then they had to pass it on to the parents that were deaf, and they didn't know how to do that, it was too emotional for the individual. When it comes to qualified interpreters in those sticky situations, legal and medical situation, we need to be careful not to -- or to keep the professional interpreter in those situations. If it is a cake decorating class at your local hobby lobby store, then you can use family to do that. It's not as complex as legal and medical situations. 

>>> If you are working with someone who has a hearing loss, you want to know when that hearing loss happened. If it was before -- for the people who are native sign language users, sign language is share first and primary language. I know a couple of people that came from Poland, that was their first language, then sign language, and then English. When the hearing loss was acquired has a huge impact on what is going to be needed. Some are main streamed and some go to the State Schools For the Deaf. Some take a oral track for a lot of the residual hearing, there are a number of signing systems, and signing exact English, American Sign Language is the only system that is actually a language. It has it's own syntax, it's own word order, it's own way that it is used that makes it a bona fide language. The others were manually created to help kids read at a higher level. The level of hearing loss is important. Is it mild, severe, high frequency, low frequency. I will give you an example. I use my husband in this. I told him. He doesn't mind. Don't laugh. He has a high frequency loss, so when -- for the sounds everyday where your vocabulary tends to be in the 30 to 40% range. The decibels are the high and the -- I'm sorry, decibels are how loud we are, loud or soft, and frequency is the high and low pitches. In the frequency, he has 90% loss. Those are the sounds of women's voices and children's voices are. So the lower frequencies are the consonants are. We were attending my daughter's last recital when she was orchestra as a freshman. We leaving -- we were leaving the performance arts building. I'm sad because this is my daughter's last recital, and I made the comment that our baby is growing up, and he said, where? And I learn not to repeat what I say, I say, what did you think I said? And he said, I thought you said, a baby is throwing up. 30 to 40% is with our lips, the rest of the communication is the way our tongue and our jaw moves. A good lipreader is only going to capture 30 to 40% of what you say. If you change subjects in the middle of the communication, then you are going to lose them, because they don't know where you are heading because they are focusing on this one topic. That is the technique that we can use if you talk to someone who is hard of hearing and you have good lip skills, make sure you make it clear that you are changing the subject. 

>>> Level of loss is important. Is it progressive? Is it stable loss? Is it going to get worse over time? If you are an employee, and you could use the phone, and now you can't, is there an accommodation? Is there an amplified phone that will work? How much loss, is going to be assisted by this accommodations. Is the hearing devices going to work? The amplifier, will that work? There is a lot of different sound systems that may or may not work. They vary as far as quality and decibels which is how loud they can become to amplify the sounds for that environment. The environmental surroundings can affect what you hear. It may not be as effective as CART, which is real-time captioning in a court proceedings because of the environmental noise and the sound loss. He is a sign language user, but he didn't lose his hearing until later. He lost it in early elementary school, and he can communicate well in writing when he goes to the doctor. When he went to the emergency room, and they thought he was having a heart attack, he wanted a sign language interpreter. You have to look at what accommodations are most effective. 

>>> Speech discrimination, sometimes individuals will be able to hear the environmental noises, but they cannot discriminate the speech, they cannot discriminate the words. That's a huge mess for people who get cochlear implants, which is a device that goes up to your brain and stimulates the cochlear and provides those passes to the ear and the brain. If it's a hearing aid, a cochlear implant, whatever type of system that is used, you will want to understand how clear the speech will be understood. I want to talk about identity. That is often lost. This is so much that we learn through the incidental information. Think about this when you work with employees with hearing loss, a customer with a hearing loss, or a [ inaudible ] that has a hearing loss. If I or my spouse are getting home from work, and we start talking about the bank account, and I say, for example, to myself, oh I noticed there was an extra $150 in the bank and I went ahead and bought some -- whatever. And my spouse says, you were supposed to pay the electric bill with that. And he says, you can go down to the local grocery store to make the payment, yeah, I guess we will have to wait. I have already spent the money and we are not going to be paid until the 1st. Now, if the individuals were not signing the information, the child that is deaf, just lost a lot of incidental information, like money is tight, the bills are paid on the first, the bank account is low, and you can pay your bills at the local grocery store. So much information we take for granted. When you are working with the individuals in the office setting, any other type of setting, service setting, think about the incidental information that they don't have that they need to have to make the decisions that they need to make. 
>> Okay. Next slide. 
>> 
>> I want to give you a few pictures here of different types of technology. The first one is corded and cordless amplified phones. I know we have a lot of different states in this telephone call, in this webcast, and it varies have state to state, but many states now have telephone access programs, where the state is funding programs to ensure that people with hearing loss and maybe people with other disabilities have access to the telephone system. In my state, Texas, we pay for vouchers so the individuals can purchase those. This goes beyond amplified phones and hearing loss, it covers any type of telephone access for anyone with a disability. There is corded and cordless phones, and these are mostly going to be for people who are hard of hearing. You go to be very careful when you buy the amplified phone, some only amplify up to 30-decibels, and there is two that amplify up to 55-decibels. The 90-decibels is like a jet engine. When you look at the amplified phones, you need to try out the phone and see if it works for them. 
>> 
>> The next slide, TTYs or TTDs, they are texting and typing devices. They work on the old fashion BOD system, and you have to take turns on these. You will see people type it in. And if you have had this, you can see it is slow and cumbersome. We did a pilot level to see if it was TTY to TTY, if it TTY through a relay service, and then if it was a hearing person to a hearing person, and then through a video relay service. And what we found was:  The call that was a hearing person to the hearing person was 7 minutes, TTY, TTY, that was around 25 minutes, and the call going through a relay service, a typing relay service, a TTY, like relay Texas, that took like 35 minutes, but the call that went through the video relay service took about 10 minutes. You can see the video relay service is not ongoing to be more accurate because you can see the interpreter, but it is much more fast, and it's a time saver as well. You can see the blackberry and the Sidekick, those are the two common two way-paging devices, which is an outdated term, but it was actually created for -- the Sidekick was created for someone who was deaf. They thought how do deaf people use the telephone. This is an interesting history there. It's the deaf communication phone. Those are the phones that you tend to see out there. The next slide shows you the video phones. The one on the left is called the O-JO. It's like a remote control, you can dial the number, you can see the interpreter, or if the individual is deaf, and they have one of these, they will be typing back and forth. I know a lot of people are using web cams to have conversations. The video phones have been around now for five years. So when I was a kid growing up and we dreamed about being able to talk to each way and I think it is kind of interesting that it came out first for the deaf community more so than the hearing community. The lab top looking one is one that is put out by Purple, and it is a web cam technology built in to a laptop. And the one on the right side is a Sorenson video phone, and that's the video phone, and it sets on your television and it connects to your TV, it can be on and sits on your TV, and a light flashes and you will know that you have is a call coming in. It is free to people who are using sign language, or they are at a nominal cost. Say, for example, the one from Purple, the laptop, I think the person who is deaf can get it for $99, but they sell it to the general public for $299, something like that. Businesses can use these as communication devices. I would encourage doctors and clinics that serve a lot of people who are deaf, where they have a lot of individuals coming in, and maybe some state and vocational rehab agencies and they can set this up and have video remote interpreting. The video remote -- relay service, VRS is intended for the individual that would make a phone call. If I would normally make a phone call to someone up at the 5th floor, then that is what it is for. It's not for the individual that is sitting next to me in the doctor's office, and they are interpreting between me and my patient. That is an illegal use of the service. VIR, video -- VRI, video remote interpreting, that can be used that way. If the doctor or attorney had that in their office, they can tap in to the remote location, and they can interpret between the individuals. That is the coolest and the newest technology out there. The next shows you the braille communication device, and it is a typing device that is putting the information out in braille for someone who has a really severe visual impairment. 
>> The next device is the VCO phone, voice carry over phone, it's for someone who has hearing but they do not have speech -- I'm sorry, I said that wrong. It's for someone who has speech, but they do not have hearing. If I have lost my hearing later in life, I don't sign, and I can't hear them over the phone, and when it is my turn to talk, I can see it over the screen. It can also be printed out depending on the type of phone. 
>> The next slide is one that is the large visual [ inaudible ] This can be attached to their phones so they can see the texting and the typing coming across the large screen so that they can read it. The next slide, our caption phone, and big button phons, for those who they have a visual impairment, and needing a larger print, but the captioned telephone is used -- it captions the terminology across the screen as you are making the information across the screen. It's much like a VCO phone, voice carry over phone. These are all services that can be run through by your state relay service. 
>> 
>> The next one is a speakerphone, that's another type of phone that might work. For some people with hearing losses, such as my father-in-law, he is hard of hearing, and he can't hear on the hand set, but he can hear on the speakerphone. That works well for him. 

>>> The next slide is ring signalers, and they can make things loud, at a different decibel, they can make it at a higher or lower tone, and the lower tones would be more accessible for my husband, he doesn't have a loss in the lower ranges, but in the high-pitch ranges he does. He can signal those. There are also signalers that flash to get your attention. 
>> There is another a blue tooth that is compatible to a hearing aid. That is pretty cool. 
>> The next slide is telephone and headsets. And the next slide is a amplified headset. This is for the operator that is, you know, answering the phones at a place of business, and she needs a headsets so her hands are free instead of picking up the phone. These are more devices to make the telephone accessible. The next slide shows you a couple more types of headsets that are used by people who are hard of hearing. And then the next slide is an example of a personal FM system. These are beneficial for [ inaudible ] Like a staff meeting, you can put one of -- how do I describe these? One is a receiver and one is the amplifier, the am ply fuel emissionsier is the one -- amplifier is the one they speak to. And some of them pick up so well, you can put them in the middle of the table, six to eight foot radius. And some of those are not amplifiers. And so the vacuum would not be picked up or the air conditioning that turns on would not be picked up and the one next to that is another FM system. These can run from $150 up to $1000 to $1500. I have seen some in a conference room and they are the size of whole dollar coin, and they will pick up what only goes in to the microphones. It's a really really effective choice for things like staff meetings, trainings, things like that. 
>> There are alarm clocks also, that are vibrating or they are really really loud. They are not Workplace accommodations, but -- I thought -- well, it could be. But there is an amplified stethoscopes, people think, I can't be a doctor, but I will tell you what, every year we have a person who is deaf or hard of hearing and is going through med school. They can have access. There is amplifiers here for televisions where you put the headset on, instead of turning the volume up and blowing up the people in the -- blowing out the rest of the people in the house, you just put on the headsets. The more wireless you go, the more expense they come. 
>> The last slide I have here, this is an example of CART in a conference. This is a conference that I was part of back in April, and if you look at the slide, you can see that we videoed in the interpreter, the sign language interpreter is coming in remote. Yeah, this is new. This is VRI. This is video remote interpreting. It is coming in remote, and the captioning is coming in remote, and that is on the far left, and the presenters, you can see out there in the front, and what is behind her is the presentation. It's pretty neat how cool this technology can be. 
>> Jackie, do we have any questions? 
>> Yes, we do. 
>> I want to remind people that they can e-mail questions to swdbtac@ilru.org. 

>>> We have several already. One of these has to do with what obligation for assigning a sign language interpreter if the deaf person speaks a foreign language. Would you have to provide a sign language interpreter in a foreign language. Sign language is not international. So if you use a different foreign language, then you would need to find someone who can speak that language. We also have a deaf interpreter. And that sounds silly, but it is a person that is deaf and is trained to interpret. They train with a hearing interpreter, a regular interpreter, but they can usually -- because they are native speakers in sign language, they can get the language in a level even if it is miming to a person in the other country. As I understand it, people from foreign countries have an easier way of communicating this way. The obligation, correct me if I am wrong, Jackie, but it is to provide an interpreter to speak in that foreign language, sign language. If there is not one that is available, you would look for a deaf interpreter, and a lot of regions throughout the state have those local resources depending on where you are out. And they would be able to use the deaf interpreter then to communicate with that person. 
>> It's easier in the bigger cities. 
>> Yes, it is. 
>> 
>> Can an employer provide a two-way paging device in the sense that it is providing a distraction in the Workplace. I'm unsure about -- 
>> Well, they are talking about a blackberry, a two-way paging device, Sidekick. Can you restrict the use of it if there is too much of a distraction in the Workplace. 
>> I think that would be if they can perform the functions of the job. It depends what the two-way device is for. I think that is right. I'm not going to go to a work in a place that restricts the use of my blackberry. 
>> [ Laughter ] 
>> Obviously, if they are using, they have a complete ban on those, that is not an accommodation for the person to communicate, so I don't think -- they may be able to restrict it in some way, you know, some occupations, safety risks, those things, but restricting it because it is too much of a distraction, I am not sure about that. It would depend on what the distraction is. It depends if the employees are not doing their job, then it would be restricted. I think it depends on what the distraction is. 
>> You are correct about the possible harm or the safety risk. My brother used to work at Sherwin-Williams Painting and having any electronic devices could be harmful. The radio waves could ignite something. It could be a safety hazard. That is what I mean by the safety. I don't think
>> Edina Jambor says: who decides what is effective communication? because doctors often do not allow the deaf person to decide what kind of accommodations they need
>>  -- 
>> The determination is made by the business, but in title 3 ADA, you are to consult with the person to make that determination together on what is effective. We know the person who is disabled is going to know what is effective for them. What is going to give them communication access. What I do -- this has been my area of most experience, and that is dealing with doctors. When I moved to Austin, Texas, my job was to convince the doctors to provide medical interpreters, and I worked with 600 doctors over three or four years, and what I did was I shared with them the information that they have the final decision, but they need to consult with the individual that is disabled, the individual that is deaf, and find out what is effective for them. Like we talked about earlier, there is all kinds of things you have to look at to determine what is effective for that person. I have provided guidance from the Department of Justice and the American Medical Association. If the interpreter is needed, the doctor has to make that determination. Sometimes the resources can sway the doctor to find out what is important. I send those individuals information, and I fax -- individual information and I fax it to them, and if they share it with the vims, they will -- individuals, they will 99% of the time find the accommodation that is important to individual. I think that is right, but I know it is a real frustration. Still, all of the time we are getting calls from people that are not being given the opportunity for effective communication with doctors and lawyers who have very clear and unambiguous responsibilities to provide the effective communication. So I would -- I think it's a good idea to give them the information that they need so they that understand, and that it is not just your opinion that they do this, but it is given by the Department of Justice who says it clearly. 
>> I don't know if my resource information -- yeah, my contact information is on the PowerPoint. If you e-mail me, I will send you the packet of information that I use with the medical providers that I have found effective in the four or five hundred cases that I have worked with in the corporate level, and I have a 97 to 98% successful rate, so I would be happy to help you if you share your information with me. 
>> 
>> Can you tell me more about the VRI process and where to access it since it's not included in the VRS service. 
>> 
>> I would suggest going to the interpret and provide the video remote interpreting. There is not a lot of agencies out there right now, maybe 10 or 15 that do this type of service, and there is four or five in my state that I know of. I don't really want to give any specific names, I don't want it to look like I am referring you to a specific place, but do an internet search, and they will tell you that information. They can tell you what it takes to access their services. A lot can be done through the web cam. The one thing you are going to have to is the high speed internet. For the rural areas that have the dial up, it's not going to work. 
>> 
>> 
>> Edina Jambor says: thank you
>> 
>> I have Road runner, it is very, very, fast, and if you don't have something that is high speed internet, then you will get trailing. Some of those will just use the web cam technology. It's effective that way. 
>> 
>> The video phones -- there are video phones now that get around the firewalls, they are portable, you can plug them in to any place. They did it in my state building, and they brought it in and did nothing to get around the firewalls, plugged it in, and it worked and that is what it is directed to do. 
>> 
>> Okay. 
>> Can you explain a little bit more about what a blue tooth compatible phone device is and how it works to help a person who is hard of hearing? 
>> I don't have all of that information, but I would be happy -- if you can e-mail me, I can put you in touch with our hardover hearing -- hard of hearing specialists, and all I know it is a blue tooth, and it is on a neck loop, and it transmits the information through, it's like a telephone. It's pretty new. It's only been out for a couple of years, it transmits from your hearing aid from your telephone, and you can hold your telephone -- she holds her telephone like a speakerphone, and she talks to it, and then it goes through the blue tooth on a neck loop in to her hearing aid. 
>> If a person has a well-known ability to read lips, but they still request an interpreter as an accommodation for a meeting, must we provide this? 
>> Again, effective communication. Even though the individual is a good lipreader in a meeting, it's hard to follow and find who is speaking and catch what is being said through their lips. An interpreter may be needed for that type of situation. They can catch what is on the lips and the hands at the same time. Must you provide? That's something you need to decide. It sounds like that is a more appropriate accommodation for someone like that. Only 30 to 40% of what you say is on your lips. There is a lot that can be missed. When you see them in the morning, and the first thing you say, is hello, how are you? We know that is going to be on the lips, but if you say, did you know you forgot to do work last night? I would probably be lost. You know, knowing what the conversation is, is really important. Following along in conversations and watching different staff members, that's going to be difficult for someone who is lip reading. 
>> What would you recommend a person to do if they are in a situation where an organization fails to provide effective communication as an accommodation. Who enforces this? 
>> It's going to depend on what state you are in. We have resources that work with the businesses and get those accommodations, but in the end if they still fail, then it goes back to the person with the hearing loss in their court to decide what they are going to do. It depends on the title that you are talking about, the employment setting, and whether it is state and local accommodations. There is some P and A, protection and advocacy, and the national organization will pop up, and you can locate the P and A in your state. That is one resource. In Texas, it's advocacy incorporated and they are set imto protect the rights of people with -- up to protect the rights of individuals with disabilities. You have to file a compliant first with EEOC, the equal employment opportunity commission before you can file a lawsuit. You have to get the right to sue letter from EEOC. And that can take up to a year-and-a-half. It takes long. And then you need to get a local advocate in there to try to accommodate the business. That might be a quicker avenue. The complaint would go to the Department of Justice, but you might first get quicker resolution by going to your state protection and advocacy agency first. What you have to realize with your state P and A, they have priorities. You is to look at t the priorities, see if it is that fitting in to their lists of priorities first, if you can make sure complaint and use the language in their priorities, then you have a higher chance of having that taken with a legal advocate and counsel. They are unfortunately under staffed. Try your P and A first, and then go to the agency that enforces that. Is there anything else you want to add to that, Jackie?  No, no, good job. 
>> In a situation where there is a conference or a meeting, is the organization required to provide an interpreter of the person's choice, that is the person needing the accommodation?
>> They have an obligation to ensure the access. Often time, the two will split the costs. That's one issue. If you are not going as an employee, and you are going out on your own, then the conference -- that organization would be responsible to provide the communication access service, unless it is an undue burden to do so. As far as picking your personal preference, I encourage businesses, conferences, whatever, to use -- if they can work out something with the individual that is deaf, and their preference, that's great. But sometimes they can't. Sometimes they have a contract in place. And the obligation of the business is the access. My understanding and correct me if I wrong, Jackie, but if they do that, then they have [ inaudible ] the requirements under the law. If it works out and they have that, -- 
>> You are exactly right about that. 
>> [ Overlapping/Multiple Speakers ] 
>> 
>> [ Laughter ] 
>> 
>> Are homeowner associations included under title 1 or do they not have to comply. For instance, during a homeowner's association meeting, must they provide an interpretation if you made the request? 
>> That is only employment. Unless they work for the homeowner's association, you would have to have 15 employees before they would provide an interpreter. I am sure that the homeowner's association is not effected by the ADA at all, they are effected by the housing act, is that right, Jackie? 
>> They may have obligations under the public meetings under the ADA, the obligations of the homes may be different. They may have obligations and also an undue burden and argument to make, but it would be depending on the specific facts of that. 
>> Yeah, how wealthy they are. 
>> Some of them are very wealthy. Like, $250,000 in the bank, they can afford the interpretation. That is under title three of the ADA not title 1, the national Association of the Deaf has a great paper on that. So go to NAD.org and go to their advocacy section, and you can find that document, and that is a wonderful resource to share with homeowners and talk about making those accommodations for those members. 
>> What is the student -- I can tell from the e-mail address we are talking about a college student. What if the student requests both the interpreter and CART at the same time. In my opinion, it depends on what the class is. What is going on? Why do they need both? I would venture to think that one accommodation would be enough. Again, the -- the bottom line is:  Communication access is happening. If I am not mistaken, ADA is pretty clear that it doesn't have to be most expense, the most fancy, the highest technology out there, it must just provide the communication access. Also when they request that, they are wanting the note from the CART provider. They are wanting the written information. If they look at the interpreter, then they can make notes, and then they are missing what is going on. The next best thing is to have a note taker in class. That is a list and option under title 2 around 3. Do you want to add anything to that, Jackie. One should do it, one or the other. They are probably wanting the notes of the class. Again, you go, I go. Does everybody else get the notes in that same form and fashion? Verbatim, word for word, take home, used to study with. Is that above and beyond? If you want to do that, that's great. That's wonderful access. I have worked with students who have two or three note takers. Some don't take it well. They will make copies at the end of class, and they will use NCR paper and they will tear off the copy and give it to students. 
>> One more last question. We have two pretty good ones, we will try to get through both of these. At the events, what is the interpreter ratio for meetings that last one or two hours, is one or two interpreters reasonable? 
>> I think you have a couple of issues in that. It depends. If you have a deaf presenter and you have deaf people in the audience, then you may need four interpreters, if you are going to have over a two hour meeting, for example. Somebody is going to have to look at the presenter, sign the voice and then the other individuals, they may need to have interpreters ready to sign the questions from the hearing individuals in the audience. If you are just talking about five participants that are deaf in an audience and there is a hearing presenter, for example, then typically two interpreters for any amount of people is enough. Unless you have 80 people who are deaf and it's difficult to see those interpreters. Most interpreters won't work more than an hour and a half alone. It is mentally and physically taxing. After 20 minutes we will becoming physically fatigued. You will see them switching on and off every 20 or 30 minutes. For example, interpreting a paralegal class could be more difficult because we are talking about case law and things like that, because I have done things like that compared to an English comp class. The vocabulary, the technology, and the term nothing, may need a need of -- terminology may need one or two interpreters. When I worked at the local level, there was a large company that had a brown bag lunch meeting every week for just one hour, but we staffed it with two interpreters, because it was highly technical technology, it was taxing, it was very fast, and they tried to run through all of this in just one hour, we would send two interpreters for those types of events. You have a conference, you have 100 people, and five people are deaf, and it's two hours, then I would say, you need two interpreters and that is it. If you have 50 people that are deaf, then it should still be 50 people that are suffice. 
>> 
>> One last one and it is not too complicated. 
>> Where can I learn more about getting a trained assistant animal for a deaf person. 
>> I don't have that resource with me, so I apologize. If you go to the internet, look for hearing dogs, that's what they call them. There is a couple of national organizations and I know we have a couple in our state. E-mail me directly, and my e-mail is on the first page of the PowerPoint, and I can get that information to you when I get back to my office, I just don't have it with me. 
>> Perfect. 
>> Thank you, Randi. I appreciate your time today, and keeping your cool when we were running around trying to figure out what to do, when we didn't have our Captioner ready to go. Please feel free to use the archived portion with your colleagues, it will be available at ilru.org in a couple of days, why you are there, you can check out our upcoming webcast by visiting the calendar page. Thanks again to the National Institute of Disability Research and our presenter Randi Turner. Thank you for Rob for his technical expertise and Marie Bryant, and also, thank you, to the remote Captioner who filled in at the very last minute this safety. Thank you very much. Have a wonderful afternoon. 
>> Bye bye. 
>> Bye bye. 
>> 
>> [ Event Concluded ] 
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